Retired U.S. Army General David Petraeus pioneered America’s approach to counterinsurgency, led the surge in Iraq and served as director of the CIA for a year. On Wednesday at the Aspen Ideas Festival, he was interviewed by Jeffrey Goldberg, about subjects including efforts to stop Iran’s nuclear program; the civil war in Syria; ISIS and the threat it poses to the United States; and the Iraq War.
Here are several noteworthy moments from their conversation, slightly condensed:
The Risks of Attacking Iran
Jeffrey Goldberg: So you believe that, under certain circumstances, President Obama would still use military force against Iran?
David Petraeus: I think he would, actually. I know we’ve had red lines that didn’t turn out to be red lines. … I think this is a different issue, and I clearly recognize how the administration has sought to show that this is very, very different from other sort of off-the-cuff remarks.
It’s also publicly known that we have a 30,000-pound projectile that no one else has, that no one else can even carry. The Massive Ordinance Penetrator was under design for almost six years. … If necessary, we can take out all these facilities and set them back a few years, depending on your assumptions.
Is Iran or ISIS a Bigger Threat?
Goldberg: I interviewed Ben Rhodes, who is the deputy national security advisor. Later that same day I interviewed Lindsey Graham. I asked them both the same question: Who is more dangerous to American national security—the Iranians (the Revolutionary Guard Corps of Iran), or ISIS. Ben Rhodes said, without hesitation, ISIS. Lindsey Graham said, without hesitation, the Iranians. Where do you fall on that?
Petraeus: Senator Graham is right … that in the region, the Shia militias, the proxies for Iran, are very dangerous. You sense, in fact, this possibility of an all-out Sunni-Shia civil war.
The Advice on Syria That David Petraeus “Theoretically” Gave as CIA Director
Goldberg: In Syria … was it a mistake not to [help arm and support moderate anti-regime rebels] in 2011?
Petraeus: If I had advised something at that time it would have been covert action, given where I was [head of the CIA]. And so it’s not something that I can talk about now. The New York Times certainly has the memoirs of some of the other participants.
Goldberg: So theoretically, if you had been running the CIA in 2011, you would theoretically have advocated for that?
Petraeus: Theoretically.
Goldberg: OK, just wanted to check.
Petraeus: Aggressively.
Goldberg: OK.
Petraeus: Actually, it was a little bit later. But I can neither confirm nor deny.
Goldberg: He’s not actually here at all by the way. You’re not even seeing him. It’s a hologram.
Petraeus went on to say that today, the United States needs a force in Syria that it can support, but that it is not in America’s interest to prop up the Assad regime.
The Atlantic, ASPEN, Colorado, 3 July 2015